Listen as we discuss how your technology problems won't go away when your workforce goes remote, they'll just change into different problems.
Speaker 1: Welcome to the JMARK Business Innovation Technology Experience.
Dax: Welcome everybody. Those of you seeing us in the stream on Facebook, stop and listen. Of course you won’t hear me say that. And welcome everybody who is joining us on the podcast later. So, today, we have the one and only James Lewis from JMARK with us today. James is the service manager for our team that supports hospitality and insurance and some of our other clients. The topic is related to COVID. We’re going to talk about how tech problems don’t really go away. They just change a little bit. You know? We’ve been in this world of COVID for, oh my gosh, what are we at now? Six months? Something like that. And it kind of feels like six months and forever. Everybody has kind of adapted and changed and we’re just carrying on.
Sure there’s still a lot of turmoil in the world but companies are working from home, you can see we’re in three states here for this podcast. For those of you watching. And this is kind of our normal, so to speak. But we might be experienced with some of the challenges of technology, being in a remote situation but James, if you could talk about, or explain a little bit about what you’ve seen over the course of this change. Before COVID, you had a lot of people coming to the office. You were logging into your client machines remotely that were in an office with high bandwidth and now you’re potentially dealing with some different things. Can you talk a little bit about what are the differences that you’ve seen take place?
James Lewis: Absolutely. Probably the most prominent thing is distractions in the home. It’s something that’s not technology but people have people around them all the time. Their animals, their kids at home and everything. So it becomes inherently more difficult to instruct people on how to solve their problems at home because of the external distractions they have around them. Going around, keeping them busy, stepping away, I’ve got this call, I’ve got something going on. What’s that outside? And we’re seeing a lot more of people losing focus and trying to get a resolution to the issue. So that just extenuates the time that goes to that and then leading off of what you said, people being at the office, on a file server, or something where everything is right there, it’s immediate, it’s right in front of you. You click and it’s there.
You start adding other network challenges to that, people that are remote that have residential broadband connections that are being overrun. More and more people get home, they become overrun. There’s only so much broadband there for everybody to use within a particular area. So you see slow downs, you see meeting problems. So whereas before we were dealing with desktop issues and server issues and immediate problems, we’re dealing with troubleshooting why your meetings aren’t working. Why is my video blurry? Why can’t I get into the file server? Why is this not connecting?
And we’re adding layers of troubleshooting on top of that because whereas before, we knew the network was the desktop to the network, to the cloud or whatnot. Now we’re adding your residential broadband to it. We’re adding whatever equipment you have behind it. We’re adding your son and your kids streaming Netflix while you’re trying to work. And it’s all networks that are not visible to us. So we don’t have the tools to access and see what’s taking up that available bandwidth. What’s blocking that information from coming and going. So we have to-
Todd: Just to be clear, we do have the tools, but we’re not managing the home networks of our clients.
James Lewis: Yeah. Sure. We have the tools to see everything on our side, but what you’re doing at this point is you’re bringing in the residential broadband troubleshooting, you’re trying to get familiar with equipment that they have, we have to get more familiar with what they’re using at home and how that’s set up. A lot of these default set ups aren’t set up to transfer file over certain protocols and certain ports. Those are inherently blocked. They’re locked down because they’re in a residential environment. They’re not usually known to be common. So when they go and they get those set up, things don’t work. And our troubleshooting and everything is focused to going to being able to connect to their office remotely as opposed to accomplishing the work that they were before.
Dax: I was thinking a little bit about this and the reason we started this conversation was because of this idea that has come up in regards to a business owner thinking that their cost would go down potentially for if they went to an all remote situation or a hybrid situation or remote or in the office. I was thinking about this and wondering, I wonder if there is a case where that could be true? I wonder how technology could change in the home for a business because we are accessing almost everything online. So does that potentially change the future outlook for the technology for remote employees?
James Lewis: I could probably say yes and no in that scenario. You’re looking at not just … You’re getting rid of your building costs. Your rent. You’re getting rid of your electricity. But something you’re changing in those environments, you’re paying more for hosting. You’re paying more for the hosting environment to provide the bandwidth that you need for those connections. Are you standing up remote access servers as opposed to having desktops in the building and things like that? I’m sure there’s an environment as we get more comfortable with it and if this continues, so supply and demand will eventually bring costs down on things like that. The more people that demand it, the more the costs will come down.
Once you hit that fulcrum, then it could obviously become more of a viable option to create more of a remote workspace. But until we get to that point where everything is more readily available, I mean, you’re talking about thousands of miles of cable that have to be upgraded to be able to support the infrastructure of all these people. And of course there are some people that are still in remote areas that don’t have access to the broadband and the technology to get to those that are qualified for a job that they would routinely drive an hour to an hour and a half to. So there’s a lot of offset costs there, but I think it’s absolutely possible. It just has to be a hard push towards it.
Dax: Yeah. I think that brings up a good point that we talk about all the time on this podcast and in other materials that we’re putting out. That business leaders, these are the questions you should be asking when you’re making these changes in your IT set up and exploring these, finding yourself an IT partner who can help you explore some of these areas where the answer, at first glance, might seem obvious but you’re only looking at one level of the equation and there are all these other pieces of the pie. I’m using a lot of different metaphors here. But there are all these things that you need to evaluate and it takes an IT partner that can really help you look at the full scope of what it means to take all your workers remote.
Or even just a portion of your workforce remote. And what that really means and what the ramifications are and again, like you pointed out, James, not just the immediate ramifications where it might be more expensive but what does that look like down the road and what are the technologies that are coming and that are going to change and adapt to make it more feasible. All of those things need to be taken into account and a good IT partner can help you look at the full scope of the picture.
James Lewis: Yeah. I agree. I mean, every network is different. Every business is different. Every location, you’ve got types of software you use, the types of users using the computers, the types of computers, and there’s just so many different variables for every business location. But the one thing that is true that we’re seeing is that over the course of COVID, and we’ve talked about this before, digital transformation has increased exponentially. There are SaaS based applications, cloud based applications, that are popping up to solve different problems. There are new collaboration tools and methods that are online that people are using and part of me just wonders, and I thought about this for myself, but I am a very, very heavy computer user. Using a lot of resources.
Could I get to the point of essentially using something like a Chromebook or a terminal where I’m accessing all my applications online? Because we have collaboration software we use that’s internet based. We have file storage software that’s internet based. We have communications software that doesn’t need a desk phone that’s on our computers and there’s just all these different things. Even down to Office 365. Which I like the experience much more on my computer but if I had to, I could potentially, if I wasn’t a heavy Word user or a heavy Excel user, that you were just occasionally accessing some of these things or maybe just using Outlook, it might be an option just to go to the online version and use those.
So I personally think there’s a lot of potential changes and innovations that people could make to move in that direction if they are going to a full remote workforce or some type of hybrid situation. And I think this is being driven by just changes in behavior. People get used to coming into the office, opening up this application, typing in whatever, answering calls and that’s just how we do things. And I think if nothing else, COVID has taught us that we can adapt and change. Because people are changing all over the place and businesses are changing because of that. So it’s definitely an interesting possibility.
Todd: Feeding onto that a little bit, whereas I agree with you, going back to basically the topic is that our tech problems don’t go away when we go remote, they evolve. So you’re absolutely right. What does it mean to go to a Chromebook and things like that but on the opposite side of that, that you’re looking at supporting apps, remote apps, SaaS, deployables. The troubleshooting is always going to be there. It’s just, that doesn’t change. It’s never going to change. There’s no click it and fix it situation. Especially going remote. It’s just how you support changes. We shift from going from desktop support to knowing that we’re going to be doing remote support for somebody.
We know that there’s going to be those roadblocks in the way that we discussed earlier and those things that everybody has to be prevalent and you need to get a solid IT partner and there’s a grand scope. The big thing about it is in this new world that we’re living in right now is, we don’t even know what all … We don’t have the data to support what all is going to change with technology, what all is going to change with how we deploy and people are developing apps to fix problems.
James Lewis: You’re correct. And then now we have to learn how to support those apps, how they work and then how to provide the sort to the end user on those and we’re having to learn these on the fly. So it’s taking more energy and more time to understand how they’re able to continue their work life and not be stuck with a black screen in front of them.
Dax: I don’t want to cut Christina off, because I know you have something to say, but I just wanted to highlight one thing you just said, James, which is learning these apps on the fly and I think that is something for me, who is an end user, that is so easy to take for granted that every new thing we introduce into the environment, you guys on the service, on the technical side of things, have to learn these things and understand them in order to help us out with them. It’s so easy to take that for granted and just speaking for myself and probably on behalf of everybody else, thank you to all the service technicians that put in the effort to learn these things so that the rest of us can just go about our day obliviously doing our work.
Christina: Yeah. I completely agree. I think I always just assume, “Oh, they’re a tech guy. They know how to use this.” Okay, James, I had another question for you. This came into my mind. So we’re talking new problems that will arise once people start working remote. So I was wondering if this is something that business owners should think about. I feel like people might be more likely to use their work computer for personal use while working remote, since it’s right there. Are there any precautions that need to be taken to prepare for that?
James Lewis: Absolutely. One thing that I like to tell any clients that I deal with, or anybody, try to stay out of your personal life on your work computer. Don’t log into your banking apps, don’t bring up your social media profiles if you can avoid it. Especially in some of the industries that these people are in. I mean, hospitality wouldn’t be so bad but insurance, medical industries, things like that. We do see the usage of the computer as a personal device. There’s instances where they even let their children on it to watch YouTube and log into sites and stuff like that. Those are things that really need to be brought to the forefront. It probably wasn’t as prevalent prior to this COVID crisis because not as … It was a random occurrence or, “Here, play with this while I take this call.” But now it’s constant. The device is always open. Something else to feed into that.
You’re also adding wear and tear to your equipment. Whereas Todd was talking, can I go to a cheaper end Chromebook? A $200, $300 Chromebook? Can I use that? Possibly yes, but you’re still getting into the fact that you’re going to be using something that’s not a, what we would say a business class device. So you’re getting inferior parts inside of it. You’re getting equipment that’s got a shelf life, a screen that’s only supposed to be up for 4,000 hours and then that’s the end of it. Whereas a business class device, they’re made to be up in an office at all times. So when you try to jump into that cost savings up front, it’s going to end up costing you on the end once the warranty runs out on those devices because you’re constantly going to be replacing them. But the feedback to you, yeah, it’s a real situation right now and it’s hard to get under control. A lot of end users, and myself included, we don’t have that disconnect between, this is only for work. We only use it for work.
We don’t need to use it for anything else. It’s a tool and when you have a tool, you want to use your tool all the time. Keeping other people off of it. Keeping your password secure. We tend to get more lax when we’re at home. We don’t think about security as much and we leave things opened, we leave them unlocked, we walk away while the screen is open, which seems normal but I mean, in some instances, your environment is not always as protected as you think it is. Kids can come up and get on your computer and smack buttons and set off a nuclear reactor, for all we know. So there’s instances where a lot of that has happened. The data security side of it, secure VPNs and being safe and practicing those best practices like it is a work machine, is something that we want to express to everybody. Just because it’s at home in your personal life doesn’t mean it’s something that everybody gets to put their hands on.
Todd: As I’ve been listening and we’ve been talking, the one thing that’s kind of come to mind is the security aspect but with the idea that whenever we’re talking about security controls within JMARK and policies and things like that, there’s always a push and a pull. There is this idea that we can lock everything down and make it super secure but it is going to piss everybody in the organization off. It’ll be harder to get things done. Harder to do our work. And so there’s this balance. And I think this balance goes in line with exactly what we’re talking about with IT going remote. Sure, you may have more online applications that you could move to, but that doesn’t mean the tech problems are going to go away. They’re going to, like you said, they’re going to change. You know?
You’re going to be talking about these different layers of the network and you’re talking about bandwidth that isn’t being monitored and controlled and with different computers and computers being used for multiple things and all of this just goes in line with this idea of push and pull. It’s not that you’re taking anything away, you’re just moving it into a different place. That’s exactly the point of what we’re talking about. It’s this idea of tech problems will just keep going on and they’ll just change and be different. But getting back to security, you talked a little bit about the computer. What are some other security issues you’ve seen during this time as people moved home? What are some of the things that we need to be aware of?
Dax: So, not to cast a dark cloud, but people know people are working from home. And they know that they’re taking their equipment with them. And something we’ve actually seen an uptick in is I’ve got my work computer and my work equipment with me, so I’ll just take it with me and I can work where I go. If I want to go to Starbucks or somewhere out to eat and everything else. And it’s been in the news, there’s been an uptick in thefts of equipment because we don’t leave it at the office. It’s not behind a locked door that’s got a security system. There’s been home thefts. Something that’s actually quite common when you have your computer set up and your office set up, you usually have it next to a window so you can get a feeling of the outside and everything like that.
And most people that are on ground floors at night specifically, you leave your laptop or your computer on, and someone inherently drives by and sees that, that’s equipment that they can acquire. And it’s only one pane of glass or one window away from them. So being security minded, it’s not so much just lock your front door, it’s to not be obvious. Don’t leave your equipment in the front seat. Don’t leave it at the table while you go order. That has happened where they come back and it’s gone because they went to get whatever they wanted. And leaving it in view, even like I said, windows opened at night, in view, things like that. The security needs to be raised. As far as how you treat your device. And I know it kind of harbors on another thing, don’t let smaller children have access to this equipment at all times, make sure that they understand that it’s not a toy as well because they will throw it on the floor or they will push buttons. They will smack your keyboard. They’ll ask questions-
Todd: Sounds like you’re speaking from experience there.
Dax: Yeah. Yeah. I’m not impervious to these things. I have children at home as well and they’ve asked plenty of questions on equipment. I have a lot of equipment in my office and I take things apart and put things together, computers apart and things like that. Things have come up missing. My child has run across the house with a motherboard in his hand. And that’s my own doing. I left that available but kids, everything in a house … I keep going back to kids because it’s real personal to me. Everything in the house is your kids’ and if you don’t want to accept that, you’re wrong because everything that’s in plain sight is theirs. They’ll get a hold of it, if there’s not an established boundary. And then if they don’t, friends of friends. You’ve got teenagers who have friends and they talk, they’ve got all this equipment. You never know. It always becomes a security risk if you’re not security minded about how can I protect my data and my equipment?
I can tell you that it’s not always just kids. Years ago, I had a laptop, years ago, decades ago, before I worked for JMARK, a business laptop, a work laptop that I had and actually it was this desk behind me and I just left it overnight and let it open and it was turned off and everything but on this shelf where you can see the speakers up there, at that time, there was sort of a statuette that I had that was heavy sort of cast iron type thing and I don’t even know what happened but it fell off that shelf and landed on the keyboard overnight and I came out and my keyboard was totally destroyed. There was a dent in the keyboard. It’s not just kids that can … any kind of these types of accidents can happen. I was also wondering, as Todd, you and James were speaking and getting into the security side of keeping things at home, how does that extend, I’m sure it does, into compliance for certain industries and what effect does it have on your compliance when employees are taking equipment home and working from home?
Todd: Yeah. I think that does in line with what I was thinking about too. But from a little bit different angle. In that you mentioned, James, that as companies make this change to go remote, or even partly remote, they potentially could be saving costs on office space. Maybe on the bandwidth in the office. Maybe on the amenities that they provide to employees in the office. And so there’s this potential for cost savings in one place but as we’re talking about it with this push and pull, well, then you’ve got to wonder, “Well, how important is your data?” You know? Do you need to be putting in some special firewalls that are only being used for the work computers in the home networks? Do you need to be locking them down a different way so that they just are much more secure than a home environment?
Are there policies that need to be implemented regarding things like family members and cast iron statues and things like that where policies that people sign where they say they’re going to protect this thing and keep it in their sight and maybe policies that say you cannot use this in a Starbucks and something else? You just think about this. There’s this push and pull where it is totally just going to be different potentially and just funds will shift from one thing to another thing or technical work when people shift from one type to another type. Security will shift from the deep security in the office to the remote security and so there’s a big, big potential change in that.
And then how that goes into the compliance. I think that’s a great question because it’s hard to say because the regulations haven’t changed yet. So under, for example, SOC. JMARK is SOC 2 complaint. There are certain regulations that we have to have and most of those controls are applied to a office environment. When they audit, they are auditing the office environment. They also audit things like security and if we have encryption on the computers and VPN and things like that but I think we’re going to see changes in the regulation. We just talked to one of our clients a few months ago where they were one of the first in Missouri to have, I think it was an FDIC audit done online. How’s that going to change when tellers are working from home? We’ll see.
James Lewis: And something to build on top of that, and while I agree completely when you ask the compliance question, and I’m 100% in agreeance, we don’t know. And the reason we don’t know is because most of these principles were built around a brick and mortar environment. You’re looking at HIPPA laws and being HIPPA compliant. How can you, as a doctor or physician, someone in the medical field, how is that going to translate over to somebody that is operating out of their office. Again, HIPPA compliance, part of it is you have to shield the clients information from everyone because that’s the relationship that you guys have with the client. Now you have people that potentially in your house and everything else that could have access to that. How can you gauge that you’re in compliance? How can you prove that? And how can we measure that? As a committee, and as companies, how do we measure that people are in compliance? PCI compliance, as far as customer and credit card data.
As you move your sales representatives out of the brick and mortar office and into their house, how do we make sure every home is PCI compliant and making sure that any kind of credit card information that they’re pulling and transmitting is encrypted and properly protected from a home network that is secured by the residential person? So feeding back into that, those costs that you’re mitigating by getting rid of your store front, you’re looking into putting that into teleworker appliances and VPNs and again, published apps and finding ways to create a way for a merchant to process transactions from a residential address.
Dax: The other thing too that is in home networks, are internet enabled devices. You don’t see Alexa devices and Google Home devices and light bulbs that you can control over voice and through your phone and I mean, in this room I’m in alone, I have one, two, three, four. I have four or five smart devices. Now, I know how to do things and so I have them on a separate network, but I mean, think about it. You’re talking to somebody about their financial transactions, you have a loan officer working from home, what’s the security on those devices? If you’re a doctor and you’re providing telehealth services, and you’re working from a home office, what is to say that there isn’t some device that’s snooping or not intentionally but there might be a flaw on the device where somebody has hacked into it or done something. So there’s potentially a lot of other dangers that people need to think about.
Christina: Yeah. Speaking of devices, I feel like another potential problem would be, I feel like people are more likely to use their phone for work. Their cell phone. Now that we’re not working in an actual office. So what kind of security measures do you think that companies need to put into place for that?
James Lewis: One thing that’s dangerous using your personal cell phone is being convinced to give out information socially. So there’s social engineering attacks where people will pose as someone else, or they’ll pose with certain information or they’ll call with an urgency in order to solicit information from you. And when we’re at home, and we’re using our personal devices, we absolutely feel more comfortable whether we’re aware of it or not, giving out information we normally would not give out if we were on say at work. You expect a call at work. If you start using your personal devices in that manner, you don’t know every call you’re going to get. And that poses, again, with compliance and stuff, that poses a big risk for people getting information from you because they’re leading questions and being on my side of the industry, where we have to deal with people who get this.
There’s leading questions that you don’t even know that people are asking you that they’re pulling information away from you that they can use elsewhere. Sometimes you’re not even the target and that’s the biggest thing. Everybody things that they have a big target on them and they’re not. A lot of times, you’re just a small piece of the puzzle of a large network to get to a bigger goal or bigger situation. Getting that one person to talk to next out of you. Getting that email out of you or that bit of information that they can use to be you in another situation. So, definitely there’s probably some etiquette in policies that could be in place but it’s very difficult because using your personal device, there’s no way for a company to audit that phone call. There’s no recording of it. Because a lot of companies, we know they record the calls. And they gauge those calls and it’s a way to keep people in compliance and it’s a way to make sure that maybe if scripts are being offered, that you’re following that information and things like that. When you’re on your phone, it’s wild, wild, west.
And something that Todd said earlier, Bluetooth can be one of your worst enemies because that’s an easy technology to overcome in most situations and if you look in a lot of the hacks in the past that people talk about, all these passwords got out, a lot of them started from somebody taking over an iPhone or an Android device through the Bluetooth and start pulling data off of that device. Cached passwords, cached information and things you go and if you’re using it or work and commerce, it’s something where it creates a bigger piece of a puzzle to push that information out. It’s something that I would lean heavily on business owners and things to use things like Zoom and Workplace for Facebook, Teams, things like that and try to keep it to a medium that can be somewhat secured as opposed to a personal device.
Todd: I think that we also have to remember though that there’s, in this whole push and pull that we’ve been talking about, there’s alternate ways to do things that are beneficial and one of those could very well be a person’s cell phone. Cell phone, if you’re working with a partner that has software that can monitor cell phones, that can secure the data, that can separate the data away from other apps on the phone, you have virtual phone systems where you have apps that will just plug in on your phone so you can still be on the company phone system and the company extensions and be able to use that phone and then you have a business that doesn’t necessarily need to buy a desk phone. Just sit at home.
Or possibly well, the computer is … And there’s also just this level of convenience where I’m on vacation and somebody needs something from me, I can securely access those things through the software that JMARK has provided on the phone to be able to get something done so it’s almost a tool for velocity, a tool to quicken work, and you’re not so dependent on the thing. That doesn’t mean the risks aren’t there. The risks are absolutely there but if you’re working with an organization that has the security controls like JMARK does, that has the software, that has the ability to separate and segregate the data. Then that risk can be limited to be turned into an asset to help you be more successful and lower your cost.
Dax: Yeah. I think again, I don’t want to sound like a broken record but it’s just, there are so many variables to all of these things that the most important thing you can do as a business owner is find a technology partner that can help you answer these questions. That can, not just the variables and the technology, but like you mentioned earlier Todd, the variable in the way your business runs. The variables in your needs. And the right technology partner can help you weigh all of these things and make the right decisions that’s going to help you achieve your ends and leverage the technology because there are, technology there are risks, but there are also opportunities and they can help you weigh all of these things to put your business in the best situation to get the most from your technology.
I also wanted to mention, one of the things that I’m really passionate about, ever since coming to JMARK, we’ve been talking about these security risks and training. Just the idea of finding an IT partner and training your employees to be ready for these security risks. And retraining them. This isn’t just something that happens when they’re hired on or once a year. But just also, you’re retraining. I, myself, just yesterday, every day when I get done with work, I go actually to my personal computer and check my personal email and I had a phishing email in there that if I hadn’t had the training that JMARK has, that gives us all the time, it would have fooled me. It actually fooled me for a couple of minutes until … It was classic, there’s a problem with your account.
We can’t process your payment. And for a couple of minutes, my mind was going like, I wonder what happened? And what am I going to have to do? And then the training kicked in and I was like, “Oh, wait a minute.” And I looked for the red flags and saw that’s what it was. But that wouldn’t have happened without the constant training that JMARK does. I think once we’re sending people home, all of these other aspects that we’ve been talking about, things you mentioned, James, of not leaving your computer where it’s physically easy to access these types of things, that needs to be incorporated into this training.
Christina: I completely agree about the training. Honestly, before JMARK, I was very naïve. I mean, the thought of a hacker trying to get into my computer had never even occurred to me before. It was bad. And because of the training and then the continued training, I am very proud of myself. I am super good and super quick at spotting a phishing email, immediately send it in, so thank you Pete.
Todd: Red flag. You just told our internal security person that you want some more tests.
Christina: Bring it on. I’m ready.
Todd: Awesome. All right. James.
James Lewis: Something I wanted to feed into that, as I answer these, I’ve been answering in kind of an approach of talking to a business owner and things like that, and I’ve expressed some of the most negative situations and the worst possible case scenarios. But actually, I agree with Dax and with Todd. The technologies that we have, and then we can enforce, actually mitigate quite a few of those risks. Mostly speaking from an open air environment, things that we have to actually look forward to and look that hurt us. But as far as answering with the personal devices and everything, yeah, there’s a lot of MDM application that we provide and that can be provided that mitigate quite a few of those risks and application logging and things like that. And secure VPN. So it’s entirely possible.
It does add to the layer of tech problems obviously, because now we’re troubleshooting cell phones as opposed to troubleshooting a computer at an office or anything like that. So your tech issues do shift but I don’t want to make it seem like it’s an impossible scenario because it’s absolutely possible and it’s easy to accomplish as long as you have the right people and the right questions asked and a good solid tech plan is put in place.
Todd: Right. And I think that’s the beauty of JMARK and with our services is, we have people on staff like James who, you want someone like James behind you. You want them looking at your network and pointing out the problems and the methods and finding potential weaknesses and then we have the people that are working strategically and helping to look at the future and help with budgets and help with the strategy plans and there’s so many different areas, but I think the biggest kind of mind opening revelation to me during this conversation has just been this idea of the push and pull. We went into this knowing that this idea of technology support wouldn’t really change but coming out of this conversation and having a chance to talk through it, it’s really that it is changing and potentially changing quite dramatically and businesses really have to take a lot of things into account that they never had to take into account before.
I mean, statues and kids and devices and all kinds of things that could mess up and physical security and these are things that shifting to a hybrid work environment or remote work environment, they have to be taken into account, they have to go into your tech plan, as James mentioned, into your policies, into your security policies. And of course, the pentacle, the foundation of it all, is good knowledge and good training and having the security training, your employees know what to do, know how to spot the problems, they’re going to be the biggest allies in your organization to help keep the data secure. If you would like to learn more about the security offerings that JMARK has or any of the other services that we offer, just head over to our website, JMARK.com, J-M-A-R-K. And send us a message or give us a call and we would love to talk to you. Have a wonderful week.
James Lewis: Thanks.
Speaker 1: Thank you for attending this podcast. We hope it has been informative and help convey that at JMARK, we are people first and technology second. To learn more and discover additional content relevant to your business, please visit us online at JMARK.com, or at LinkedIn, Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram. You may also call us at 844-44-JMARK. Thank you for your time and we look forward to seeing you again.