Mind Your Mind: A Conversation About Mental Wellness and Working From Home

Speaker 1:

Welcome to the JMARK Business Innovation Technology Experience.

Todd:

Okay everybody out there in Facebook land and everybody watching today, we have a handful of people here at JMARK, and we are going to talk about something that has not been talked about much in the last couple months because everybody’s talking about working from home and tools and strategies. And we’ve talked about that too. Of course we have the best content on that. But today, we’re going to be talking about the psychological effects of working from home. I’ve worked from home for probably at least a decade, seven years or so, six years for JMARK. And it’s definitely a little different.

Todd:

Why don’t we go around and everybody introduces themselves while we start getting some more people watching this on the feed. And Christina, you want to go?

Christina Koons:

Cool. I’m Christina Koons. I do marketing and events at JMARK, and I think I am definitely the newbie of working from home out of this group.

Dax Bambrough:

I’m Dax Bambrough. I’m calling in from Utah, and I do content strategy for JMARK. And I’ve been working from home full-time for JMARK for a couple of years but going back for the last 20 years, merely every job I’ve had has had some sort of remote work component and working from home at least some of the time. So maybe not quite as much full-time experience with it as Todd, but definitely quite a bit.

Pete:

Hi all. I’m Pete. I’m the director of learning for JMARK. So I’m responsible for learning paths, whether it is technical or leadership, so forth. I’ve been doing remote work since ’97 on and off. So didn’t quite have the same tools we have now. My engagements for things. Basically green text on the monitor so to speak. So I’m looking forward to engaging with everybody and talk about their experiences and what’s going right, what’s going wrong and so forth.

Todd:

Okay. Awesome. So if you have any comments or questions, throw them out on the Facebook video that’s live right now, and we will be monitoring that and answering any questions as we go.

Todd:

So where do we begin?

Pete:

Hey, Todd.

Todd:

… cases working from home.

Pete:

Yeah, Todd, I had a thought about this. Something that I don’t think is discussed much at all. As I’m going through the different tips and tricks I’ve read out there about what people are doing working from home, I think one of the most important things from a psychological standpoint is having that meeting with your supervisor and discussing what winning looks like. I feel like throughout my history of remote work, that’s been the difference between a great experience and a frustrating experience is sitting down with your supervisor and figuring out exactly what winning looks like. Does winning look like every day sending a summary? Is it project based where every week we’re going to get together and talk about what went right or wrong with goals? Is it I need to be in front of my computer because I’m customer facing from eight to five? Is there expectations that I’m going to be working… Todd, I know you do this quite a bit as well is you working your core hours, and then you taking a break and you’re coming back later at night when the family’s to bed. But I think what’s really critical is having that conversation and making sure both people are on the same page.

Pete:

And then to continue that is to have that discussion within your team. What does success look like? What happens when I go to lunch? How should I communicate when this, that, and the other thing happens? In the agile world, we’re talking about working agreements.

Christina Koons:

Yeah. That’s a really good point, and that makes me think of something kind of related. So I know going from working office full-time to working from home full-time drastically, out of the blue put in my mind, in many people’s minds that maybe my supervisor might worry that I won’t be as productive at home. And Todd definitely put my mind at ease about that. He has said, “There’s studies that show people are not less productive working from home.” That’s not a fear that he has, and that made me feel a lot better right from the start. So I think that’s really important for supervisors and managers to do right now.

Dax Bambrough:

Yeah. I think there’s a couple of things that tie in to what you both said, and that the first thing is that we’re talking about the psychological effects and mental health and stuff of working from home. And uncertainty is a stressor for everybody across the board that I think in different ways when we feel uncertain about things, that always increases stress levels. So like you said, Pete, having that conversation makes a huge difference. On top of that or going along with that, with what Christina said, is that we are in a massively uncertain time. Like nobody knows what’s coming. We’re figuring this out as we go. So things like Christina, it’s natural to worry about when we’re working from home and stuff, but I think the communication helps a lot to just stay in touch with people, especially your supervisor and be like, “You know what, there’s a million things going on. Helping the kids with their school or whatever is pulling my attention away.” And just keeping open those lines of communication eases stress levels on both ends so that people know I wasn’t as productive today, but I will be tomorrow. And that breaks that stress away. I think the less stressed we are, the more successful we’re going to be overall.

Pete:

Hey, Dax. That reminds me, I had a conversation with Landon Dyson about this a few months ago. Time passes quickly, doesn’t it? And he talked about how with his people in-house, that’s what he appreciates what lower stress within his team is he wants a team member to come in and say, “Look, here’s how I’m feeling today. I have things going on. I don’t know how I’m going to be as productive as I’m going to be this afternoon.” And sharing that back and forth I think just calms everybody down. It’s that trust with the manager, which is fantastic.

Pete:

Also, as an employee, I’m like, “Okay, good. My manager gets it. I’m not a machine. I’m not a robot. I’m going to have all kinds of things going on in my life, but they get it. And we have a plan together in how to get to productivity, how to get to where we want to be by not having to come in with a smile.” And this is the same way with remote work. I don’t have to come in with a fake smile in Zoom or something and be like, “Yeah, everything’s fantastic.” I think what really works well is having that conversation going, “You know what, I’ve been doing this, that, and the other thing. I have health concerns within my family.” “Can we talk through a plan on how to get you to where we need to be?” Because both parties want the same thing, which is to win, is to provide value to the client. It’s the value within the organization. So it’s not like these two parties are against each other. But I think opening conversation again is, “Hey, here’s where I’m at. Can you help me get there?” Makes a world of difference. It just calms things down.

Todd:

Yeah, absolutely. There’s been times when I’ve had rough days, and sent a message to Tom and said, “Hey, I got to go take care of some stuff.” He’s been totally open. There’s been times that Dax has had to go take care of some things and Christina as well. I think just having the understanding that, like you said Dax, we are going through different times right now with everything that’s going on. And even if we weren’t going through those times, there’s still going to be challenges that have to be dealt with and stresses. But the fact that it is a little bit more stressful right now with everything going on, just basically having the understanding as coworkers and leaders that there’s going to be the ups and downs I think is vital to maintaining the, I don’t want to say productivity, but at least the mental health of everybody that’s worked remotely at this time.

Christina Koons:

Well, it’s interesting you say that, Todd, too because I just read before this that 60% of workers say that their mental health affects their productivity. I totally-

Pete:

Oh yeah. Without a doubt. When I taught over at technical college, one lesson… I knew this to be true, but I got to see it firsthand was when folks are not relaxed, when you’re not paying attention to their mental health and trying to teach, you might as well not show up for the day. Because when people are stressed out, when things aren’t quite right, it’s hard to process new information. So the best thing managers I believe can be doing and coworkers should be doing is helping people figure out how to lower those stress levels, to be ready to accept new information or else you’re just basically wasting time. I know that firsthand myself because I’m stressed about something. I can be in a meeting and it’s just back and forth. I’m not quite absorbing. Can anyone relate to that?

Christina Koons:

Oh totally.

Todd:

Absolutely.

Dax Bambrough:

Yeah.

Todd:

What does… Oh, go ahead, Dax.

Dax Bambrough:

Oh, I was just going to say on the subject of open communication, I think, and this idea that we are in an unknown world right now is that I’m always surprised, and I think other people are too, when I call in. I’ll talk to you, Todd, or have a conversation with Christina, and we’ll get around to the things that are stressing us out and the things that we’re uncertain about. And in my head, it’s always like, “I’m the only one feeling this way,” and then I’ll mention it, and Christina will be like, “I’ve been feeling the same way, and I thought I was the only one that felt that way.” So I think that communication breaks down that barrier and reminds us that we’re not all alone, which is huge.

Christina Koons:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Pete:

Yeah, that’s so true. Being able to have that conversation with each and talking through mental health is a bit of a stigma at times, but being able to say, “Hey, look…” I have a conversation with Michael coming up in like an hour. We try to meet two times a week or so just to talk through things a bit and understand our new normal. And afterwards, I feel so much better. So I think that’s critical to reach out to folks in your organization. And not just ones you know, I think it’s important to start reaching out to folks maybe you don’t talk to every day and just checking up and saying, “Hey, how things are going?” Because I know checking up on them, but to be honest, it’s a little bit greedy. It makes me feel better as well. I feel reconnected. I feel invigorated. I really feel much better after those conversations. Just like this seminar. I’m happy.

Todd:

So let’s talk about something that you mentioned, Dax. You mentioned loneliness, and when all the pandemic stuff wasn’t happening, I was traveling to Springfield about once a month. Pete, you were about the same, right? And Dax, you’re more like every six months or something. So how do you all deal with that? The fact that you’re not interacting face to face with coworkers that you would normally be just in an office setting.

Dax Bambrough:

I’ll go first. I’d say for me, when it’s now or whether it’s before, I’m sure Todd, you and Christina, and maybe Christina feels this even more than you do, Todd, but a lot of times I actually call people up versus we’ve got so many tools these days to communicate, text messaging, chat messaging on Workplace from Facebook. All of these things, and even if it’s maybe just a quick question that I have, not all the time, but more often than I think other people do, I call people up for the exact reason that you’re talking about, Todd. I’m always a little bit more isolated from everybody else. So just having those conversations and actually speaking to a person makes a really big difference in just reminding myself that it’s not just me at home all alone in Utah. I’m actually part of a whole team and a whole company out there that are my colleagues and friends and associates.

Pete:

Facebook Workplace has helped quite a bit for me personally. I feel like more part of the company a lot more being able to follow what folks are doing. I know about the different bowling leagues and things that are happening after work prior to this pandemic. But the engagement level is much higher. And like Dax, I like making those phone calls. That one-on-one, there’s so much that can be lost through text message and Facebook Workplace messages. Sometimes you got to just pick up the phone and just, “Hey, what’s going on?” Again, that lowers stress, and I think that’s important is to personally try to litigate stress as much as possible during these times. Being able to say, “I’m stressed and that’s okay. How am I going to get out of it?”

Christina Koons:

Yeah. I agree with the phone calls. I also think it’s important that whether it be through a phone call or chat or whatever it is, make sure that you’re still having the personal conversations and talking about random stuff outside of work, like what music you’re listening to right now. We do a lot of gifs on our team. So I think all of that helps me maintain connected to everyone here in my own-

Todd:

G-I-F. Not G-I-F-T-S for those who may [inaudible 00:14:45].

Christina Koons:

Yeah.

Dax Bambrough:

Everyone on my team wants to give me some gifts, I think you guys have my address. I’ll send you my address, Pete, so you can gift me too if you’re feeling generous.

Pete:

Yeah. I’m on it.

Todd:

Yeah. I think when you mention chat, chat tends to come across as very tone general, very neutral. There are times yesterday, for example, when I was like on my desk laughing so hard, and in no way felt lonely because stupid gifs that people send over chat and conversations and things like that just lighten the mood. When you’re just typing news out and information, it can feel so neutral, and you can say, “Is that person upset? Is that person happy? How’s that come across?” And just throwing some little things like that can massively reduce stress. At least it does for me. Maybe that’s why I use so many gifs. Maybe I’m just stressed and need my own humor, making myself laugh or something. I don’t know.

Todd:

But I also agree, there’s times that I’ll call someone up just out of the blue just because… And it’s usually late in the afternoon. It’s been a long day and I’m feeling it. I may just call somebody up and just say, “Hey, how’s it going. Just needed a break for a minute.” I think that’s so important. And then what we’re doing here. I mean, video has been the best thing ever for me for working from home. I mean, I spent years working from home with no video, and that has been the massive change just really in the last year on the marketing team. Just allowing us… We talk on video every single day, and that’s basically removed the whole distance I think from us all, even though we are separated by really hundreds if not thousands of miles.

Pete:

I think one of the challenge for new folks doing this, it just makes me feel like the new normal. What I mean by that is for those of us who work remote, I’ve been doing it for years, this is not that big of a change. I mean, yeah, certainly we’re contacting folks that are remote now. But for the most part, this is just what we do. I think it’s just really important for those seasoned folks to remind themselves that not everyone feels this comfortable and to be able to offer advice and let them know, “You know what, it’s going to take some time.” It took some time for me, even at Dreamwork, just getting into that flow of this is my office. Talk to my wife about, “Hey, when I’m in the office, I’m working at this point. Feel free to knock on the door, but I’m at work.” Making sure that when I get up in the morning, I dress, and I plan for my day and making that a routine.

Pete:

So I think some folks from those I talk to come down a little bit hard on themselves because it doesn’t feel normal yet, and they’re struggling to get that new rhythm. It’s okay. A lot of us have had years to do this, and this is a planned activity where everyone else it was a pandemic. Like, “Hey, by the way, change the way you do your whole work world.” So I think it’s important that folks know it’s okay. It’s going to take some time. Talk to folks who have done it for a while. Problems you’re having on adjusting. Open those conversations up to coworkers because I’m sure quite a few people have that same issue.

Christina Koons:

Yeah. That reminds me of something I read earlier as well. So I’m going to read it. It’s a bit like exercise. Exercise goes from everything from a half an hour a week in the gym to a full on marathon. They said, “We’re throwing the entire US into exercise equivalent of a full on marathon training by sending people to work at home five days a week all the time. And I suspect for most people it’s not going to work well.”

Dax Bambrough:

Have you, Christina, since you’re the one who has had less experience, and you said this right at the start. You literally were thrown into this. Definitely none of the rest of us experienced that the way you did. So what’s up for you? What’s worked for you over the last month or decade or however long it’s been since this began?

Christina Koons:

Decade. For me, I am one of the lucky ones who I really enjoy it, and I think there’s positive and negative effects for everyone. And I think that everyone leans more one way or the other. So for me, I feel better than a lot of people probably do. But some things that I do are just a bunch of self care. I read a lot. I make sure I get out and walk my dog every day at lunch if I can, if it’s not raining. Stick to a schedule, wake up at the same time. Have my morning routine. All that. And then as far as actual work goes, just doing the same thing I did before, planning my days out ahead of time, knowing what I need to get done in the morning, and crossing them off as I go.

Dax Bambrough:

Have you found it hard to separate your work at the end of the day and separate work mode Christina with your non-work mode Christina? I know that’s one of the adjustments. Pete, you mentioned this, and I know that I’ve gone through it. I’m sure Todd, same thing with you. That’s one of the adjustments that people can struggle with.

Christina Koons:

I personally haven’t. I know that’s a big deal for a lot of people. But I am so intentional about setting boundaries to protect my mental health, and I think it also helps that my work setup is in an area that we don’t really use. So I leave this area and I have the rest of my normal at home life. Nothing’s really changed.

Todd:

[crosstalk 00:21:05] What do you all experienced in terms of… I won’t drop a bombshell too quickly here, but not necessarily yourselves but others you’ve potentially worked with or others you have worked with. I mean, in terms of depression. What are some signs that you see where somebody is getting… There’s a big difference between stress and depression. But where someone’s reaching that point where they potentially need some help. Are there anything that you’ve seen? How to recognize that?

Pete:

Tone of voice on the phone calls, especially for folks who you are used to talking with. You can just things are a little bit slower, things are a little bit more sterile. Maybe the conversation’s very much about getting things done and the small talk disappears, and you know that person would be a talker. Those are things I’ve seen, and I-

Todd:

Change in behavior.

Pete:

Yeah, and I think it’s a point of ask, “Hey man, is everything okay?” I’m not trying to pry, but is everything okay? I mean, that simple question. I don’t want to name any folks, but there have been a couple folks that I have conversations with now because I’ve asked that one question and said, “Yeah, you know what, things are a little bit wonky right now. Do you mind talking about it?” “Yeah, of course. Let’s chat.”

Todd:

Right.

Christina Koons:

Yeah. I think quicker to stress/anger, slower to laugh is definitely not a good sign.

Todd:

Interesting.

Dax Bambrough:

I think you can also be aware because I do think I have this conversation I actually have a brother-in-law who has a PhD in psychology and he’s a psychiatrist. I think it’s also just you guys are both saying be really aware of… Well, I guess Todd just said it, changes in behavior because sometimes can also try really hard to mask it. If it’s somebody who’s usually pretty open but suddenly everything is always great, that can be a sign too that they’re trying really hard to not let you in. And like Pete said, the small talk disappears but this sort of veneer they’re putting on of everything is great can also be a sign that everything is not always great for all of us all the time.

Pete:

I think we need to assume that.

Dax Bambrough:

Right. So it’s really being aware of those changes in the people that are around you, whether we’re talking about coworkers or other members of our family or friends or whoever that are also dealing with all the same stuff that we’re dealing with as a part of the world we’re going through right now.

Christina Koons:

Yeah. I think it’s really important to remember, this is something that I read and something that one of our clients mentioned in your interview, Todd. But we’re not just working from home. We’re working from home during a pandemic. It’s a big difference.

Todd:

Yes. I’ve worked from home for many years, like I said, and I was thinking the other night how the current situation, you would think it would be like summertime, summer break. Everybody’s at home. Nah, not at all. It’s totally different. I don’t even know how to explain it, but it’s totally different and definitely more stress. And I think we just have to recognize that. That just the social isolation and the standpoint of not being able to go to the store, not being able to go to a movie, not being able to go to a restaurant to having to now suddenly potentially be the teacher helping kids with their schoolwork, parenting all day, not getting all the paths done that you need to get done can totally affect the stress that you’re dealing with. I think it’s also important just to ask just how people are sleeping. I think that’s a big sign. If you recognize in the morning that people are dragging, it could be just they haven’t had their morning fix, but also just over time typical work from home, you tend to work a lot anyways.

Todd:

It’s hard to sometimes create a boundary. You lose track of time so to speak. It’s really easy to go to your computer and just get a few more things done so that you can “set yourself up for success” the next day and then just more and more and more just getting piled on and you sleep less and less potentially. But still with everything going on, I mean, we have to maintain good structure in terms of sleep, in terms of exercise, like Christina said, and your boundaries and everything. So I think that’s another good thing.

Pete:

One thing that’s helped me quite a bit, I’ve shared this with a couple folks, and they’re doing the same thing, is have something to look forward to after work. So for me, I’ve been playing a lot more guitar lately. So I’m not playing a lot. Maybe 30 minutes after work. But it’s actually something I look forward to. Tonight, I know I’m playing a Pantera song. I’m looking forward to actually getting out my guitar and playing. I just feel like it’s important to have something to go to. Otherwise it can feel like a very long day. It helps break up my work. And then on the weekends, I’m trying to do more activities as well, whether it’s guitar. You can see behind me by my oranges there’s a couple juggling balls. I’m learning to juggle a bit. But I’m trying to do just some things just to take my mind off everything that’s going on. Still get my work done through the week and still doing some work on the weekends when I need to. But I’m really trying to add a little bit more excitement in there. And I find that when Monday rolls around, I’m a lot more excited to start the week.

Christina Koons:

Love it.

Dax Bambrough:

That’s interesting that you say that, Pete, because I think that’s one thing that I figured out over the years of working from home is oftentimes I think people, at least a lot of people I know, don’t want to plan their free time because they feel like that’s, “Well, I got to plan all day at work. When it’s my free time, I want to be free.” But I’ve found, and it didn’t just occur to me, it kind of came over time that actually planning it out, like you said, it gives me something to look forward to. And it gives me a way to actually make sure that I use that well. We talk about the importance of getting away from the work, like Todd was just saying. When you’re working from home, you’re always at work kind of.

Dax Bambrough:

So to get away from the computer and have something to drive you away from it and get that mental break after work and have something else to do rather than just linger is really important, and it makes a huge difference. I think that there’s that saying a change is as good as a rest. I think that we often forget how important that mental reset in our own mind is and that sometimes the most productive thing you can do for your work is not be productive at work after work when your work hours are done because you get yourself reset, get yourself back ready for work the next day. So when the next day comes, you can happily back in work mode.

Christina Koons:

Yes. [crosstalk 00:29:07]

Todd:

… principle, quotable thing we need to create. And it’s so true. I mean, what’s the point is people are coming in stressed because they’re so connected all the time. What’s the point? I mean, they’re not going to be productive. They’re not going to be a joy to work with. They’re not going to be happy. As coworkers and managers, we have to recognize that everybody needs their space, and we need to give them space. And we need to encourage people to disconnect and encourage people to separate the work from the personal a little bit and let them be human.

Pete:

Christina, you were saying something.

Christina Koons:

Yes. So this is something I live by. You can’t pour from an empty cup. So you always have to fill up your cup, make sure you’re taking care of yourself. And if you’re doing that, you can give your best at work, your family, everything else in your life. But it has to start with you taking care of you.

Pete:

Yeah. That’s absolutely critical. And it’s easy to overlook, right? It’s easy to overlook because again, I know this to be true especially with newer folks doing remote work is they want to make a great impression. They want to go ahead and knock things out, and they want to make sure that their managers understand that, “Hey, I might be at home, but I’m killing it.” What’s interesting is I’ve read a lot of case studies on this when it talks about stress mitigation is sometimes the best thing you can do, similar to what Dax and Christina were talking about, is something else. Sometimes getting off your butt so to speak and grabbing a cup of water, going for a walk, it will reduce stress levels, which makes you much more in tune, which will make you not only just more productive but better to work with. I don’t want to work with stressed out people all the time. It doesn’t make sense.

Pete:

Self care, which Christina kept saying throughout this, which is so critical, is recognizing, “You know what, guys on my team, I’m going to take a break. I’ll be back in 20 minutes or so. You know what, I’m going to do something else. When I come back, I’m going to jump on this topic.” I think what’s important is for managers and their employees to really have that conversation knowing that, again, we’re not robots. And the best way for me to be productive is self care and making that a point, being very focused on that. Not just letting it happen, but being intentional about it I think is critical. It really works for me.

Pete:

After this meeting, I’m going to go over behind me, grab those juggling bean bags and probably bean bag for five minutes juggling. Looking forward to it actually.

Todd:

Why wait?

Pete:

Yeah. Why wait. Because I’m horrible. Nice try.

Dax Bambrough:

So Pete, can we schedule another Facebook live thing in a couple weeks, and you can get a little routine?

Pete:

There you go. I’ll be the introduction.

Todd:

So we’ve talked about this whole separation and having fun. How do we bring fun into the home work environment when we’re all by ourselves? What are some strategies and things we can do to… I mean, fun is obviously going to… Depends if you have allergies or not to those things. What are some things that you all have found to do that?

Dax Bambrough:

I think for me because I’m, any of us, I’m actually literally by myself all the time. I live alone. So isolation is like really isolation for me. So to bring fun into it, and especially during the work day, I’m always playing music. Like Christina said, she and I and Michelle will sometimes share what we’re listening to. So I bring that into it. I’ve also personally started listening to the actual radio again with actual DJs and stuff. So it brings a little bit of there’s something else going on, even if it’s just in the background. There are other voices and it’s sort of, to me it brings a little bit of fun because it’s not, “Well, I’m going to listen to this today.” Instead it’s whatever comes up. So it brings something interesting into play, unexpected songs and that kind of thing. But I think music is a huge thing for me in order to change the tone and keep the right tone going on during the work day for me.

Todd:

Yeah. I’d agree with that. I’d go a little bonkers if I didn’t have some music during certain times of the day, and it helps even out the ebbs and flows when I’m feeling just tired and too many things hitting my plate. Sometimes there’s different types of music I can play to get my energy up. I think that’s definitely true.

Todd:

I was talking to the Vasceno Group I believe. And they were saying that they have… If I’m remembering this correctly, they were saying they scheduled a few times to actually play a game remotely. They were playing… I don’t remember what it was, but it was like solitaire or something. They were playing something remotely on a group thing during the work day just as a break. I just thought that was a cool idea.

Christina Koons:

Yeah.

Dax Bambrough:

Yeah. I really like that idea.

Pete:

For me, yeah, I do too. For me, I’m very intentional about relaxation so to speak. So for example, when I get up, I got my guitar that’s right between my couch and TV. So every so often I’ll get up for a break or water. I’ll pick up my guitar for like five minutes. I have my gaming machine up. I might jump on there for five, 10 minutes occasionally. But I try to make sure that it’s not a thing I do, it’s just part of who I am. I got my JMARK core hours, but I do hours after that of course. It’s not a big deal because it’s just part of my day. I try to make sure my day is fun. I try to make sure I’m doing things I’m enjoying, chasing my cats around the house. 10 minutes of YouTube or Netflix or something. But I have to be intentional about it because if I’m not, my natural tendency is to head down work, and I find that I’ll put the hours in but I’m not nearly as productive as if I do more balance. I think that might be a challenge for some folks. It certainly was for me.

Pete:

So it’s to really have that conversation with myself that I am better by doing these things. I’m better off by not keeping my head down for 12 hours or so because after a certain amount of time, I’m becoming less and less productive and it’s not doing anyone any good.

Christina Koons:

So something that our company has been doing that I think is huge to help everyone’s mental health during this time is our Friday rallies that we’ve been doing where for everyone watching who is not part of the company, our CEO will get on, and the whole company is on video chat. So there’s over 100 of us, and he’ll just give us an update. And I think that helps too because he’s very transparent about where we’re at, what he knows, and that helps alleviate some of the stress on our end as well.

Pete:

Oh, and it’s so much fun, isn’t it? I mean, I love peeking through the different videos going on, seeing what people’s work environments are. I’m like, “Oh, I haven’t talked to Dave in five-six months,” and have a great conversation. I look forward to it actually. That’s something I really like doing is just popping around, and we tease each other about our backgrounds and some of our beards and such. But I think that’s helped me quite a bit is those Friday meetings.

Christina Koons:

Yeah. And some people make it extra fun because of the whole show your senior picture thing going on right now. So a lot of people have been posting theirs in our workplace, and during these rallies, someone else will take someone else’s picture and make it their background. Very entertaining.

Todd:

Very true.

Dax Bambrough:

Yeah. I think it’s important. It’s a good way again, to just bring back the personality, the friendships, and get to see who other people are, especially for me being so remote from everybody else, get to see that side of people that I wouldn’t have known just when I see in the few times that I get in the office or working with them on something. Oh, that guy I wouldn’t have expected him to be the jokester who does put somebody else’s senior picture as their background or something. So it brings that culture together, and it reminds us that we’re all part of something and we’re all going through this together, which again unity and together is so important. We say this, and I see every company in the world has ads and commercials out there about we’re all in this together and stuff. And you can sort of become numb to that because we’re hearing it so much. But it’s absolutely true. I mean, at the bottom line is it’s true. We are all going through this together and coming together in whatever way we can is a huge part of, I think at least for me, and I think for a lot of people, relieving ourselves of that stress and relieving ourselves of that loneliness and feeling like we are… Reminding ourselves we’re not going through this on our own.

Todd:

Yeah. I was just thinking strangely enough about you mentioned the word know in terms of people, and I was thinking in my mind that in Spanish there’s two words for the word know, K-N-O-W. And in Spanish there’s [foreign language 00:39:43] and [foreign language 00:39:44], which is know and to be familiar with. And the [foreign language 00:39:51]. And what I’ve come to realize in this whole situation with COVID-19 is that I’m actually getting to know, getting familiar with people more so in this situation than I was when I was traveling to JMARK Springfield every single month and seeing them in the hallways because there it was more in passing. I’m in constant meetings, going from here to there, still focused primarily on various people that I interact with a lot.

Todd:

But this whole remote situation has allowed me to get on the [foreign language 00:40:33] side, which is get more familiar with… Dax, you’re laughing at my Texas accent to Spanish. To get to know people really from who they are. I learned so much about the people I’ve worked with for years now that I’ve never even knew, and part of that is just these live meetings with a whole bunch of people. Part of that is everything going on in the Workplace by Facebook that we use. But in that part, it’s been a positive outcome I think.

Pete:

Todd, you make a good point. I would echo that sentiment is while I’m in Springfield, although I’m there every month, there’s certain people I’m always meeting with, whether it’s a new hire or the folks that are working with me with new hire. So I might see folks in the hallway and we talk for a few minutes, we’ll grab lunch, but this has given me an opportunity to really have some better quality conversations. So certainly wasn’t asking for a pandemic, but taking advantage of this opportunity to really hone in and I felt like I built some not just stronger bonds with coworkers but I built new friends through this process, people that I look forward to talking each day. So I’d agree with that.

Dax Bambrough:

I’d like to share, Todd, your thoughts. One thing Christina mentioned, our rallies, is how our CEO Tom does use those rallies as a time to be very open and very clear to the company about where we stand and how I think personally that’s massively important because it does relieve that stress because again going back to something we talked about at the very beginning, the unknown or uncertainty is a huge stressor for everybody. So Tom relieves that by being very open with the information he has at any given time. So Tom from a leadership perspective, not even company wide but just on teams and with your direct reports. Do you have any thoughts on that?

Todd:

Yeah. Tom does a great job at making sure the company is informed of everything, and he takes the perspective of over communication really well. And there’s a lot of people that would say you shouldn’t share certain things, that it might cause more stress. But Tom’s done a great job at making sure everybody knows the real situation of everything. Workplace by Facebook has done a amazing… That alone, whether it’s from Tom or whether it’s from Chris Huels or Jeff Bendure, has been amazing to help keep people up to date with everything that’s going on. So if a certain client is having problems, if a certain client is furloughing employees because of the pandemic, everybody instantly or quickly can know about all that situation so that they can better adjust their communication to the people and the clients involved. And I think Tom’s open communication has tripled down throughout the organization so that as different leaders in the organization, everybody is being real with everybody on what’s going on, adjusting strategies, and just having open dialogue, not trying to paint a picture of the sky is falling or anything, just being real about it and talking about what we’re going to do. And I think that’s important.

Christina Koons:

I will say too I want to give you kudos, Todd, because I feel like you do a good job of checking in with your team on their mental health and their personal life and how they’re feeling.

Todd:

That’s because I’m crazy, so I have to ask everybody else.

Dax Bambrough:

So know he’s not alone. Misery loves company.

Todd:

Yeah, exactly.

Dax Bambrough:

One thing I wanted to be sure and talk about, I had my notes, and I’ll say it now as we start to getting to the end of the time is that I think one thing that I always would encourage people to do is not hesitate going back to we talked a little bit, touched a little bit on the idea depression and not just depression but any other form of mental health that you might be dealing with. Anxiety might be common right now. A lot of different things. I would encourage people to not ever hesitate to reach out to professionals if you feel like you need that sort of help. That’s not a weakness. It’s not something that means that you can’t cope or something like that or you’re not as strong as somebody who isn’t feeling the same way you are. But it’s important, and it can make a huge difference in resetting yourself to reach out to a professional that can help you with those types of things. So hopefully if you’ve got a health plan through work that allows you to do that, take advantage of those resources that are there.

Todd:

Yeah. And it’s something that in the time that we’re… And I don’t mean in the pandemic times, but in this day and age that we live in, I don’t think there’s as much as a stigma anymore around mental health. So it’s so important to recognize that people care in general, and reach out to other. Like you said, use the benefits that you have. Most health plans have some type of mental health benefits. Talking to your HR people on what you have and what you can do. It’s not going to go against you. If anything, it’s a sign of strength I think to share that so that you can get support from other people.

Todd:

Kristi just asked a question on the Facebook chat I think we should talk about. She said, “As a leader, how do you manage the balance between being empathetic to how your employees are feeling while at the same time encouraging productivity?”

Todd:

Those home workers aren’t very productive. What do you think?

Dax Bambrough:

I would say I know the balance for me personally, and Todd, you do a really good job of this, is checking in. When you check in with somebody to see how things are going, being aware that we are in a weird situation. So just making it clear always that if there is, an impediment or something is keeping you from being fully productive, that you as a manager understand that and that you’re going to understand when people are open about that. And you want to hear in order to help them solve the problem, not just for the sake of the company, not just for the sake of the project or the task, but also for their own sake as a human and as your colleague.

Todd:

Yeah. I think there’s times that I may get on the phone because I’m trying to find the status of something and trying to solve a problem. It’s like, “Well, where are you at on this, and what if we do this? What if we do this?” Then like, “Oh, hi. How you doing?” Because I forgotten to take that step of I actually do care about you, and I care about what’s going on. And it’s really hard sometimes to separate that productivity and just trying to move and get things done with being empathetic to where people are at and knowing they’re dealing with a few things.

Todd:

I thought it was really interesting, we in Facebook Workplace, we have a chat for leadership. And in the beginning when we went to work from home, there was a lot of comments about productivity, and there was comments about I’m not sure how to keep tabs on my employees and understand if they’re being productive. There’s times I will chat with people and they don’t answer soon. So I’m wondering if they’re not being productive, and that has actually changed now massively to how do I get people to just connect because people are realizing that just because you can’t see somebody work, they are working. I mean, if you hire good people, they’re going to work their butts off and do what they can to help their relationship succeed, especially right now.

Todd:

But that tone has changed a little bit to being more empathetic and trying to understand people. And I think there’s a little bit more empathy from the standpoint of in our chat system, we’re hitting around 8- to 9000 chats a day going throughout the organization, and that’s not even including email. I mean, woo. But that’s taken out of the email system. So I think people are really understanding that everybody’s dealing with a lot of. There’s a lot of initiatives happening, and from my standpoint, I seen people much more patient with communication. It’s not so much, “Hey, give me a call now,” it’s more like, “Give me a call when you can.” And let’s be more empathetic in that standpoint.

Todd:

Have you guys seen any other examples of that playing out?

Dax Bambrough:

Yeah. I think that’s definitely the case that I’ve seen that too. And I think one thing you mentioned, Todd, that hit a bell for me in my mind is actually as a leader, making sure that people know that you care because I think… And not just as a leader, probably just for all of us to the people we do care about, including our work friends and colleagues and teammates is telling them that we care because a lot of times we assume that they know. As a leader, you can assume that your people know that you care and you want them to succeed for their own sake. But I think we got to remind ourselves to say that because people don’t always know, or even if we know, it can be easy to forget. So I think that matters a lot.

Christina Koons:

Yeah. This is kind of off topic, but I just want to say I’m really, really happy that we’re talking about this because, like Todd said, we haven’t seen many people talking about it. And I want to read this fact that I found today. In 2019, the World Health Organization estimated that depression and anxiety costs the global economy $1 trillion per year in lost productivity. Given the emotional toll the pandemic, that price will likely be much higher this year. I’m glad we’re talking about it and putting it out there.

Dax Bambrough:

Yeah, agreed.

Todd:

Definitely. Rob from our company who’s on Facebook watching just asked, “Will work from home become more common going forward?” I have some opinions about that, but… What do you guys think?

Pete:

Talking naturally, yeah. I think that’s going to become a lot more prevalent going forward because businesses are hopefully figuring out that if you set your people up correctly for success, that they can work remote, and they can produce. Some folks really flourish in this kind of environment. I think the challenge is going to be more about the technology to be honest. As companies go forward putting together really good plans on how do we support remote workers. Because in our company, we haven’t always got it right. We haven’t always got it right in terms of making sure those remote folks are set up for success the right way. I think that’s what we’re going to be seeing is more conversations about, “Okay. So now we got 20-25% of the company that’s going to be working remote going forward. How do we make that work? How do we get the most out of that?” I think that’s the turn we’re going to see.

Todd:

Yeah. I noticed people at JMARK in the beginning when we sent everybody home where the feedback after the first day or first week was… Maybe not this harsh, but more or less, “I hate working from home.” And that wasn’t globally or throughout the organization. It was just some people that said that, and then I’ve noticed that as we’ve gone through this about a month or so, and it’s amazing how time has just disappeared, that is changing. People are now saying, “I enjoy working from home.”

Todd:

I don’t know from going back to what you were saying, Christina, from the perspective of the mental health during the pandemic because I partly wonder whether people are beginning to adapt, and people are beginning to recognize and learn how to really make those boundaries and to set themselves up for more success. There’s of course going to be a lot of stress right now, and there is a lot of stress and anxiety regarding unemployment and things like that. But I think going forward, there’s a possibility that there will be a lot more work from home. It may not be just complete work from home, but I think it possibly could be more flexible schedules so that people can work from home sometimes partly to address the mental health. Because it can be so much productive and more satisfying to work from home when you know how to do it, and I think that will go into play as people get back to the normal, whatever that is.

Dax Bambrough:

Yeah. I agree with that.

Todd:

We have a comment from Jessica, “What are your thoughts on the benefits of remote work versus being in the office?”

Todd:

Christina, you probably would be the best to answer that one since you’re the newbie.

Christina Koons:

Benefits. I mean, the commute, not having to drive. I don’t even live that far, but I can now take that 15-20 minutes to read in the morning instead of drive to work, which I appreciate. I’m really cheap. I’m saving on gas. I appreciate that very much. Let’s see, what else? I mean, I think I mentioned earlier but I walk my dog every day at lunch. That’s something that has brought me a lot of joy that I didn’t get to do before. I can also be a little bit productive around the house at lunch if I need to be as well. There’s a lot. I don’t know, what do you guys think?

Dax Bambrough:

[crosstalk 00:56:58].

Todd:

I realized that three of us work from home pretty much all the time. So maybe it wasn’t a very fair question.

Dax Bambrough:

No, I think those things are true just from the times when I literally had worked part of the week from home and then part of the week from the office that there is a different feeling, and there is a different realization. But once you adapt to the situation, yeah, I think you can be just as productive. There are ways that I can shut out. Yesterday I was trying to get some stuff done, and I turned off my notifications, silenced my phone for about an hour so I could really buckle down. And in the office, you can’t do that because there are still people there. So that allowed me to really have some intense focus that you don’t get from the office. We talked a lot about the interaction today, which is super important, but also when it’s time for focus, a lot of times I personally can focus much, much better hardcore when I’m at home alone.

Todd:

Yeah. I think the biggest thing between working in the office and from home is disruptions. I mean, when I’m in Springfield, there was one time I remember sending a message to Tom at the end of a week, and I’m like, “Holy cow. It’s so much more productive working from home.” And he’s like, “Yeah, I know.” Because there are just so many disruptions. I don’t know if it’s because I’m only there once a month, and it’s like, “Oh, hey Todd, I need a minute.” “Hey Todd, I need a minute.” “Hey Todd, I need a minute.” Or if it’s just because I don’t know how it normally is. But I’ve seen other comments from people online as well that the disruptions, while there are different disruptions at home, you can manage them a little bit better. You can’t manage them as much at work, at an office I mean.

Pete:

What I miss about being in-house is the lunches with folks. It’s nice to collaborate and talk with folks through video, but there’s definitely a different vibe when you’re actually in the office. I miss those weeks out there just connecting in-person. It’s a lot more free flowing, less intentional. I can go ahead and knock on someone’s door or grab a couple guys and shoot some darts. Those are the kind of things I miss about being in the office a week a month. But what Todd said about distractions and productivity and those kind of things, being a remote worker for quite a while, I really do appreciate that side of things.

Christina Koons:

I will say too that you had more control over your physical environment or you can, and that’s been huge for me. I can light a candle. I have a windows, which has been life changing, so that’s been one of the biggest pluses I think for me.

Todd:

Windows are life changing. That actually brings up a good point. I didn’t even think about this. I can’t really bring it up here. But I have a window right in front of me, but even with that window right there to the left of me, I actually bought a happy light. You guys know what that is? A happy light. Basically it’s a light that makes you happy, supposedly. But anyways, it just provides a little bit more light because I notice that my sleeping patterns were getting a little bit irregular because in the morning, I would sit down to work. I’d keep the blinds closed, and I’m just working. And then there are times, especially in the winter, where I finally open the blinds. I’m like, “Oh crap. It’s nice time.” And I wasn’t like regulating my light really well. But that’s totally another simple little thing that can help to relieve stress and help to normalize your patterns and your schedule and to help with your mental health while you’re working from home. A happy light.

Pete:

Todd, I was about to say the same thing. Light is huge. Stacey Brown reminded me of that many years ago about stepping outside for maybe five, 10 minutes and getting that sunlight. And I read quite a few articles about that on how that helps regulate anxiety, stress levels. And sometimes I have to force myself to get out of the house. I’m like head down, I’m going. But I’m like, “You know what, I’m going to step outside for 10 minutes or so. I’m going to change the blinds.” What a world of difference it is. Every time I do it, I’m like, “Yeah. I need to make sure I get out there, get some sunlight.”

Todd:

Yeah, absolutely. Also I know that some people at JMARK do this. We haven’t done this on the marketing, or maybe you guys have. You just don’t want me to be in it. What I’ve heard is what several teams do is that they will do a video like this that’s just going on a monitor where everybody’s working on their own individual task but they’re not actually talking to each other. And if something comes up, they can say, “Hey Dax, do you have a minute we can talk about this,” or something like that. But some of the service teams have done this, and I think that’s helped them to stay connected a little bit while everybody is separated with such distance. I don’t know if any of you have experienced that or seen that happening.

Pete:

Yeah, I’ve seen the teams do that.

Todd:

Yeah. Don’t worry, I’m just going to forget the videos on and do something I regret. I don’t know. Blow my nose really loud or something. Just reading the comments here. “Should companies allow employee to budget for their work environment, such as ergonomic chair, desk, et cetera?” Oh, that is a interesting one. Get in trouble with that comment.

Pete:

Right. Well, I think there’s a big difference between setting up a strategy within your company for remote work verse being hit with the pandemic where budgets might be tighter and projects are shifted and so forth. But I think in normal circumstances I think that makes a lot of sense to have that conversation in your company. Because again, the more comfortable you’re going to be. It’s a win for the company. It’s a win for you as well. So I think that conversation certainly should happen.

Todd:

Yeah. And really whether the company pays for something or whether you pay for it yourself, I mean, setting yourself up for success, getting yourself a chair that is comfortable for you, getting yourself the monitors or whatever, whether it’s a standup desk or whether you stack boxes to make a standup desk or whatever it is. I mean, yes, there’s expense there. But when you’re talking about your mental health, it’s a lot cheaper to buy a chair than potentially get depressed. And it’s little things like that that can really make a massive difference. I’ve had the luxury or the advantage of being able to design my work from home environment because I work from home full-time. But others who are thrust into this situation are dealing with it a little bit differently. But Amazon is still open and you can still get lots of those things. I say it’s well worth the investment to spend a bit of money to make yourself more comfortable and more productive at home because I think those things will just make you happier.

Dax Bambrough:

Yeah. I can actually speak to that out of experience. When I started JMARK, the week I started at JMARK, I moved into the place that I’m living in right now. At the beginning of the week, I flew to Springfield to start my first week at JMARK the very next Sunday of that week. So when I came back and first started working here, I hadn’t completely moved into my apartment. There were still boxes everywhere. So I had a desk that I could sit at and I had my laptop. And I worked there. And for a few weeks I did, and then JMARK sent me the two monitor setups that I have right now and the external keyboard and everything. And I went another probably two, maybe even three weeks without setting that up because I was just like, “Oh, I’m doing okay, and it seems like it’s going to take some time.” So I put it off, and then finally I remember Todd was like, “Dude, just get it done. Just take the time and get it done. I promise it’ll help.” I reluctantly would admit that he was right. Once I did actually-

Todd:

Wait, wait, wait. Did you say Todd was… I’m sorry, go ahead.

Pete:

Screen shot.

Todd:

Screen shot. Please make a task to take out that little segment, Christina, so we can play it over and over again.

Dax Bambrough:

Yeah.

Todd:

Good point.

Dax Bambrough:

Enjoy it while it last. But once I really did get everything set up, get my office set up and have this space to work with the monitors, with all the things that I thought wouldn’t make that big of a deal, it really did make a huge difference in my productivity and in my degree of happiness and enjoyment of working because I was getting more done. And it was easier. So that does make a difference setting yourself up for success.

Christina Koons:

Yeah.

Todd:

Absolutely.

Todd:

Okay. What are the stupid things that people stress about and get anxious about when working from home that they shouldn’t?

Dax Bambrough:

I would say people, especially now where suddenly people are thrust into this world of video meetings and video conferencing and stuff. We on the marketing team, we’ve got six people in four states. So we’re pretty used to it. But I know a lot of people, family and friends that I talk to, this is like a whole new world for them. But I think people stress about the perfection of everything like being perfect for those conferences more than they need to. I think just letting the human side be the human side is okay. I know a couple weeks ago, not to put Christina on the spot, but her dog joined our video conference for a little bit and decided that he needed to be in her lap for a few minutes. We all had a chuckle, and the meeting went on. Those types of things are okay.

Pete:

I think one is worrying about people thinking you’re not working via remote. We’re all, especially in the situation we’re in, we’re all in it. As Todd mentioned earlier, if you hire great people and you set guidelines properly, I think as a company people need to go into the idea that people can do the best they can with the information they currently have. I try to take that approach with everything is people are doing the best they can with the information they currently have. People want to be successful in this company. I don’t think there should be a worry about what other folks are doing. I get it. [inaudible 01:09:17] check in of course, but I just assume everybody’s busting their butt to try to do the best they can to help build this company. Especially with what we do at JMARK, it’s… At least for me, I’m not coming to a job. I’m coming to build something. I’m coming to build a future for myself. I figure most people are doing the same thing. So I don’t stress about that. I do my best to communicate through Facebook Workplace. I communicate with my supervisor and update what I’m working on. And if I need to make adjustments, I will. But I don’t want to stress about what other people are doing.

Todd:

Excellent. I think another thing that people stress about is anything related to video, whether it’s what you’re wearing, what your hair looks like, whether you’ve shaved, what color your hair is, what your microphone looks like, what your background looks like. You know what I mean? Sure, somebody looks like they’re probably working in their pajamas for three days in a row, that can be concerning. But I mean, we’ve all come in to work feeling a little tired and maybe wearing a t-shirt. I wear t-shirts every day, rain or shine, sun/cold, whatever. I wear a hat every day. I save loads on hairspray and hair product just from wearing a hat. But it’s just who cares. People don’t care as much as people stress about it. And there are people who will not turn on their freaking video because they’re stressed and anxious about stupid little things that really no one cares about.

Christina Koons:

Right.

Pete:

Yeah, that’s a fact.

Todd:

Definitely. Okay. Anything else we want to throw out on the psychological effects of working from home?

Christina Koons:

I don’t think so.

Todd:

I think this has been a really good discussion. If you haven’t checked it out, we have a remote mobilization guide handbook for leaders. And Dax, what the heck is it called? It’s long.

Dax Bambrough:

Remote workforce mobilization leadership handbook and guidebook.

Todd:

There we go.

Dax Bambrough:

Actually workbook not guidebook because it does have some worksheets and stuff in there too. [inaudible 01:12:05]

Todd:

Yeah, it’s a very comprehensive. We’ve had great feedback from it. Read one chapter a day, it will take 10 minutes. It’s really easy to read. It’s broken up over 100-something pages. But really in depth and detailed, and it goes into a lot of things we’ve talked about today. But more so on mobilizing your workforce and helping them be successful working from home.

Todd:

Thanks again. See you soon.

Dax Bambrough:

Bye.

Speaker 1:

Thank you for attending this podcast. We hope it has been informative and helped conveyed that at JMARK, we are people first and technology second. To learn more and discover additional content relevant to your business, please visit us online at JMARK.com or at LinkedIn, Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram. You may also call us at 844-44-JMARK. Thank you for your time, and we look forward to seeing you again.