I.T. and the Pain of Change: The Devil You Know vs. the Devil You Don’t

Speaker 1:

Welcome to the JMARK Business Innovation Technology experience.

Todd:

Okay. Well, welcome back everybody. We have Thomas Douglas, CEO of JMARK here today with us. We’re talking about devils today. This came about … I don’t even know. I think it was something I was talking about with you, Tom, or something, but I know I sent a random message to Christina one day and said, “Devil you know versus devil you don’t know. Talk to him about it later.” The topic came up, I think, in a sales conversation, right?

About a company that was really struggling with everything going on in the economy right now in the world. There’s enough discomfort as is, and they were really struggling with the devil you know versus the devil you don’t know. You want to talk through what that was about?

Thomas Douglas:

Yeah. I think simply it’s that in the midst of all the chaos in the world, people are a little nervous about introducing more change into an environment. The perception that changing IT providers or an IT organization restructure is a real scary, a real challenging, painful process. As a result, people have a tendency to go a little bit into the deer in the headlights, “I’m just going to pause and then wait and see.”

If you really take a step back and look at what’s happened over the last couple of months with COVID, I think it’s put a spotlight on good IT versus average IT versus bad IT. Companies that are floating in that category of bad and average IT are like, “Well, I’m a little resistant to make that change right now, simply because I don’t want to introduce more change or pain into the organization.”

When in reality, it’s a situation that bringing good IT into an organization at a time like this is really an optimal situation. Because there is a little bit of chaos and if you can bring a better experience of what it’s like to be a part of the team, then everybody gets to benefit from it. If it’s the remote experience, if it’s the speed at which things work, it’s the speed of resolution.

Now, more than ever when companies are downsizing, the significance of IT raises, because in some organizations they’re going to have less people to do the same amount of work or even more work than before. If it takes longer to get things solved, if there’s pain points in IT, if there’s frustrations, lack of clarity in how to use the tools, whatever it may be, now is the best time to really level up what it means to have a good IT experience.

It’s really just to challenge that status quo of I don’t want to introduce new things right now, or I don’t want to take that chance. Now is the time to take the chance because your business is going to need the best IT in order to make it through the next year.

Todd:

Also, I’d also argue that it’s not so much about taking a chance. I mean, we’re not really talking about the pain of change. It’s really about the perception of how much pain, that there will be pain, but there may not actually be pain. The pain that you’re going through is essentially the devil you know.

Thomas Douglas:

Right.

Todd:

You’re just imagining this imaginary pain that it’s going to take to thrust that away and bring in somebody new into the organization. It’s essentially a false sense of security. I mean, what would you say specifically about how a great company will onboard somebody so that it isn’t a painful experience? Where you’re not moving from the devil you know to the devil you don’t know. You’re moving from the devil you know to the angel you don’t know.

Thomas Douglas:

Well, I would liken it to going to Burger King and then comparing that to Ruth’s Chris. I mean, you know it’s a better environment, but a lot of people don’t understand that that’s the way that it is. It’s a guaranteed better outcome to your point, but going into Burger King and grabbing a greasy cheeseburger is fast and easy. A lot of people are just in that mode right now. To a certain degree, I agree with you that it is the devil you know, which is the bad IT experience.

Still, regardless, there’s always a perception that with change comes resistance, comes pain, comes new challenges. What a good IT organization does is they take the pain out of that change. Essentially, you outsource the change like we’ve talked about in the past. It’s a situation where it becomes this amazing experience where customer service is a gift. People are excited about getting their problems resolved that have been lingering forever and ever, and nobody could fix this.

All of those things that happen during a good onboarding process. You’re right, but I think the challenge that really exists, the truth of it all is that everybody perceives change as energy. That it’s going to consume energy. Really this change becomes an accelerant for the business that speeds everybody up very quickly and so it’s not a painful change. It’s an exciting change. Like going from fast food to a nice place to eat.

Dax:

I think that’s something you mentioned is Todd and I were talking about this a little bit last night. This idea that you mentioned that it consumes energy. I think sometimes business leaders are afraid that the process of making the change is going to consume their energy. Whereas, as you mentioned, you’re outsourcing the process of making the change too. If the change is being made well, it’s also taking that energy from you and relieving you.

Not just of the stress of what you’ve been dealing with in an imperfect IT technology situation, but immediately making things better by relieving you of the change to get you to the … What did you say Todd? Angel that you don’t know?

Todd:

Yeah.

Thomas Douglas:

I guess a better analogy that maybe would translate a little bit better is if you’ve got a car that you had for a long time, and you’re starting to have some problems and it’s starting to break down and you move to a brand new car, it’s safer. It’s more fun. It’s exciting. It’s something that really accelerates you. It rides smoother. All of those kinds of things. While it is change, it’s something that you can get excited about, like when you get a new car, because the experience is so much better in everything that you do.

Todd:

Getting into the nitty gritty of the head, I think part of the fear coming from the standpoint of being super busy all the time, having a lot on my plate that I have to accomplish. The fear is that maybe you can’t anticipate the outcome that the change is bringing. That’s the thing though with outsourced IT is … Tom, we’ve talked about this a little bit. In that, by outsourcing your IT to accompany that that is the angel that knows how to onboard you without the change, you’re getting a guaranteed outcome legally.

Thomas Douglas:

Yeah. The fact that a good agreement between an organization and an outsource partner is a guaranteed outcome rather than a best effort or I’m going to try really hard. I’m going to google and I’m going to look at all these things in order to try to get an outcome and it’s average at best. Versus an environment where you’ve got proven processes, certified engineers, lots of experience to lean on where you get that guaranteed outcome. That makes all the difference in the world.

It really is a perceived pain all the way around. Because what happens to the organization once they go through those experiences that we’ve seen over and over and over again, is they get to the other side and it’s like, “Oh, why didn’t I do this years ago?” That’s really what we want to do, is that while there is so much chaos going on and craziness in the world, again, it’s an optimal time to take the leap to invest in good IT to empower your whole organization to accelerate into what’s coming.

Inside of our organization I describe it as being able to accelerate out of the curve. You’re slow in making your decision, but once you make the decision, you can accelerate out and come out on the other side much faster. There’s absolutely no doubt that that given the opportunity, we can help organizations accelerate in really exciting ways in creating that better experience.

Speaker 5:

Yeah. If your technology is not good right now, it’s not going to change. This whole talk reminds me of the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome.

Todd:

Yeah. Nailed it.

Dax:

Is there also, Todd and Tom, I think probably trepidation with people that the onboarding is going to be difficult and cause disruptions in their workflows and all of these things. That’s something that’s holding them back a little bit, because they’re worried that that’s going to … maybe it will be good, but not until the onboarding is over with. Is that a trepidation?

Do you see that then a good IT company is going to take over and say, “Well, look, we’ll map this out for you. We’re going to show you how we’re going to make sure that you’re not disrupted. That we’re going to walk you through this process so that you know that we’re taking care of it.”

Thomas Douglas:

Yeah. I think I want to be really transparent in the fact that when we go through an onboarding process with a new client, it does require some energy. It does require a little bit of work. It’s not like everything is perfect, but that’s the reason we’re there, is because there’s pain in the environment. There’s frustration in the environment. We have a proven process that we go through that we know every time identifies the weaknesses in a network, the problems, the things that are creating challenges for people to get their work done.

We identify those things really quickly and then we go through a process to fix them and make them better for the users. While it … I don’t want to call it a disruption. It’s conversations. It’s gathering input about what the pain is, so that we can it away. Again, I like analogy, so if you’re thinking in terms of what it’s like to go to the doctor. You can’t just go to the doctor and stand there and for them to be able to fix everything without you having any communication.

Our job is to triage to understand what’s broken in the environment so that we can put an accelerator and a good plan together in order to make it better. It’s not painful. In fact, it’s exciting for most users. It’s like, “Oh, they’ve been trying to fix this for six months and nobody could figure it out you guys did it in an hour.” I mean, that’s the kind of thing that happens, but it does require communication from the clients in order to identify what those pain points or those triggers are that we need to work on.

Todd:

You know, you kind of hit on something I hadn’t thought about. During the process of switching IT, of course at JMARK we like to think we’re the best at it. We know we do a great job at onboarding and trying to diminish the fear, but in the end, our goal isn’t necessarily to take away all the pain because we may come in … Let me rephrase that. Our goal isn’t to necessarily rephrase the individual pain that the change will be, but our goal is to improve the organization.

That may require doing something a little bit different. We’re fixing the IT so that the organization can speed up, can improve. That productivity can improve. Sometimes … and Tom you can speak to this more, but sometimes we walk into organizations and it’s just totally backwards, their IT. We have to fix that. That requires some behavior changes and then it’s bam, everything’s flying.

Thomas Douglas:

Yeah. Simply said, sometimes you have to take two steps back before you can take a step forward. As we’re going into an organization, we don’t go around and try to fix a hundred problems. We go around and we learn what the hundred problems are to see if there’s a root cause that we need to take a step back and fix. The workstation problems that we’re dealing with in a simple environment, may be a bad design on the server side. We fix it once on the server and it fixes a hundred problems.

Exactly to your point, our goal is to go in and both learn what the tactical, the practical and the strategic items are that we need to address. Then we collaborate with our clients in order to make the best move forward plan. What’s the short, mid, long-term strategy, that delivers the outcomes that they expect from IT? Candidly, sometimes things that the clients didn’t even know to want out of IT that they should be expecting. We’re bringing those ideas to the table about how to accelerate.

The number one thing that every CEO wants is when they put their foot on the accelerator within the business they want it to accelerate. In so many organizations, IT really is almost an emergency brake. You push your accelerator on it and your people are ready to go, and your processes are ready to go. You’ve got sales opportunities, but the business can’t go anywhere because IT slows it down. What we want to do is to make sure that when the CEO says go, that the whole organization can accelerate and get where it needs to be.

Todd:

In our typical engagements, we’re working with on average, a number of people that are not necessarily decision makers, but influencers in the organization.

Thomas Douglas:

Sure.

Todd:

Coming from the standpoint of making a big decision, I mean, every person is different, but generally you need information of some sort in order to overcome that perception of fear of change. I don’t know. You should expect the solution that you’re looking at the company to provide you that information. What are the questions do you think that a business owner or influencer should be asking to get over that hump of, I got to do this? To give them the answers.

Thomas Douglas:

Well, it’s interesting when you take a step back for a second and you step out of technology and you look at entrepreneurs that build big businesses. You ask them, “What made you decide to take this big risk? To bet everything and to take this big chance and build this business.” Oftentimes the answer that the entrepreneur provides back to you is, “It wasn’t a chance. It was a guarantee.” Because they knew the facts. They believed it. They had done the research. They did their homework.

They knew the marketing conditions. They knew the need or the pain and so they were able to move forward and go. It becomes a fact-gathering mission, if you will. What is the truth that you know can be achieved on the other side? For every organization, it’s a slightly different set of questions, but ultimately we want to make sure that people understand that it’s not a risk. It’s a guarantee. It is that truth, just like the entrepreneur says, “There’s really no risk involved at all, because I’ve done all the homework to know what those are.”

In many organizations, we come in for a myriad of reasons, but there’s almost always some pain. The business can’t go fast enough. Disaster recovery. They had an incident, a major failure. Some sort of an attack or whatever it may be. Our first job is to remove the pain and then it’s a bigger conversation about, what do people want out of IT? What can IT create in an environment, in an organization that creates more value for the whole business?

That’s where we brainstorm and collaborate with our client, “Well, we’ve got this tool. We’ve got this capability. We can speed this up. We can create a better disaster recovery plan, a business continuity plan and get clarity around all of those things.” Once people understand that that is a guaranteed outcome, then it becomes a pretty easy decision to move forward. That’s what we try to do, is that trust and truth that we try to build in the initial conversations with the client to help them understand that it’s easy to say yes.

Todd:

What about an executive or an influencer that they have this fear of change. They know that something needs to happen, but they’re not in IT and they don’t even know what to ask for. They don’t know enough information to ask for or to get to that decision. If they don’t know the questions to ask for, they essentially don’t even know what they’re looking for and the devil you know is a lot more comfortable and easier than changing.

Thomas Douglas:

Yeah. That’s all real, but the best thing that an organization can do in that circumstance is to get engaged in the conversation because if the devil that they know is not getting it done, or there’s frustration. Back to the analogy, if you put the gas down and IT won’t let you accelerate, if that is going on, the best thing to do is get engaged in the conversation. Because good companies, good IT companies know that as an organization they’re not the right fit for every prospect.

JMARK is not the right fit for every single client. We’re going to be the first one to say, “Hey, you know what? We’re not the right fit for you because of X, Y, and Z.” We’re willing to be transparent about that. Getting engaged in the conversation helps both the business owner and the IT organization to understand what success looks like in a mutual relationship so everybody benefits. If you don’t get engaged in the conversation, it’s like not educating yourself at all and then expecting something to change. It just won’t.

Todd:

I think you touched on the answer right there. In the sense of what is the outcome that I hope to achieve out of technology? Or how do I know if the technology, the way it is, is going to produce that outcome? I think you kind of hit on it in the sense of, if we need to move faster will technology enable us or will it hold us back? If we need to pivot, will technology enable us or will it hold us back? If we need to go in a new direction or go to a new product, or if we need to outsource … or not outsource.

If we need to mobilize like we’ve had to in the last month, will enable us to go fast or will enable us to slow down? A lot of organizations two months ago when all the lockdowns happened, it was painful going to remote. JMARK, it was like, “Everybody go remote now.”

Thomas Douglas:

Right.

Todd:

It’s not because we’re just special. We have employees in nine states. We have clients in 43 states. It’s because we’ve gone through the processes that when we say go, the technology will go with us and when we need to pivot the technology will go with us. We’ve got the key.

Dax:

I think Todd it’s … I actually don’t remember. I think maybe both of you, Tom and Todd said something about this. It’s starting from the outcome you want to achieve. A lot of times when we as humans get stuck where we’re just getting by and not getting better, it’s because we’re focusing on the problem. We’re not focusing on the solution where we want to be. When you’re focusing on the problem and the pain, you’re just like, “Well, I just got to maintain it and then I can get by when.”

As soon as you look at the outcome you want to achieve, then you can start asking those right questions. Then you can start gathering the information and figuring out, “Okay. I know where I want to be, now how do I get there? How can you help me get there? Let’s have a discussion about that.”

Todd:

I think one of the biggest phrases, poisonous phrases, is what you just said. Essentially, I’m comfortable. We’ll just maintain how things are. In today’s world, things are changing and things are changing fast. With or without the pandemic, things are changing. The mentality of maintaining the status quo isn’t going to cut it.

Dax:

Todd, I want to add to that. I think it goes beyond just being comfortable. I think there’s also, I’m uncomfortable, but I’m unsure and so I’m not going to act because I’m unsure. People don’t start learning how to get those answers that move them away from not being sure.

Thomas Douglas:

Yeah. I would even add to that even further. I think that there’s a certain amount of a little bit of what we’ve touched on about I don’t want to stir up more pain. I don’t want to stir up more. I don’t want to look because I’m getting by. I don’t want to open the box and see the scary monster inside, because it may be a lot worse than I think that it is or it may be this big monster that I didn’t want to believe existed.

I think that there’s a lot of people, whether it’s intentionally or unintentionally are lying to themselves about the state of IT because it’s not the biggest problem that they have to solve right now. It may not be the biggest problem that they have to solve right now, but solving that problem certainly has the ability to help solve many other problems within an organization. Choosing to deal with it, choosing to focus on the things around IT, solve many other things.

Something that you said Todd a second ago made me think when we really think about the purpose of IT, it fundamentally falls into two categories. One, is to drive productivity and two, is to keep people connected. In today’s world, if your IT is weak, you can’t stay connected as an organization. You’re going to break down. Things are going to start falling apart.

Whether that’s handing work off from team one to team two, because you’re all working in the office, or if that’s making sure that somebody on the East Coast has the ability to communicate with somebody and work with somebody in the office just like they were next door. Both of those are the connectedness and efficiency that we have to drive forward with IT. I think that we’ve put a big flashlight on those things over the last couple of months to show how important it is that those functions exist and exist well.

Speaker 5:

Yeah. Tom, you mentioned technology might not be their biggest problem right now, but that could all change tomorrow. If things aren’t set up properly, it’s basically a ticking time bomb for your company.

Thomas Douglas:

Exactly. Right. Then it becomes the biggest problem.

Speaker 5:

Yeah. You’re not expecting it.

Thomas Douglas:

Yeah.

Todd:

One thing you said Dax too, that got me thinking is the idea of being unsure. There have been many circumstances I know where there’s potentially a change I need to make, but I don’t know the direction I need to go in. The solution has always been, take a step and then take another step and then take another step and then take another step. Ask a question, then ask another question, then ask another question.

If you’re complacent and just willing to settle for mediocrity and not ask those questions and not take that next step, then you’ll never see the light of what good technology can do for your organization.

Thomas Douglas:

It’s a little bit of getting comfortable with being uncomfortable. I think that that’s something that we do really well in our organization is to get to that truth. What is the truth of any situation? Whether we like it, want hear it or not, we have to be willing to take that step and gather the facts of the environment of a circumstance. Then we do the homework to figure out what the best way is to move forward. I think the best leaders in business naturally do that.

It’s like, “I see that this isn’t quite right. It’s time to dig a little deeper. Let’s uncover it. Let’s figure it out.” Because sometimes people are intimidated by IT because they’re a professional salesperson or an attorney or whatever it is, they’re a little apprehensive to put their foot in that water, so to speak. Dip their toe in it. The reality of it is that’s exactly what we need to do, is we’ve got to get engaged in that conversation to get to the facts. Get a little bit uncomfortable and then become better as a result.

Todd:

The interesting thing too is when you do that, when you start asking the questions, you may not know everything, but you’ll know if somebody is trying to BS you.

Speaker 5:

True.

Todd:

When you’re going through say the complex decision of IT going down the road of asking the questions, it’ll come really quickly. You know, is the organization answering the questions, bringing other people in the organization to the table to answer the questions? Are they asking questions so they can get to know what exactly you want? They’re not just bringing some cookie-cutter solution to you. They’re bringing actually a solution that will fit your organization and help your organization. It’s pretty easy to start seeing the light once you start going down the road.

Thomas Douglas:

Well, I think the easiest way for an organization to know whether or not they’re working with someone who has their best interest at heart is, is the company that they’re talking to, willing to walk away because they know that they’re not the right fit? If the answer to that is, yes, they’re going to evaluate it and hold their hand up and say, “You know what? We would love to have you as a client, but we’re not the right fit. It’s not in your best interest to work with us.”

If an IT organization, outsourced IT provider is willing to do that, you know that that company is focused in the right things. I think the first thing for a business owner or a decision maker in an organization to do, is to have the conversation. How do you know if you’re right to solve our problems? How do I know if you’re right to be our partner? If that conversation starts to lead down the right path, then we know, or largely you’re going to know that you’re engaged in a reputable partner.

Speaker 5:

Yeah. We talk about that all the time. It should be a partnership. It’s not a vendor or just another service provider. It’s a partnership that at least we offer and what an MSP should offer.

Thomas Douglas:

Exactly

Todd:

Great conversation. We’ll continue talking about more interesting topics in more episodes. Stay tuned. See you.

Speaker 5:

See you.

Thomas Douglas:

See you.

Speaker 1:

Thank you for attending this podcast. We hope it has been informative and helps convey that at JMARK we are people first and technology second. To learn more and discover additional content relevant to your business, please visit us online at jmark.com or at LinkedIn, Twitter, Facebook and Instagram. You may also call us at 844-44-JMARK. Thank you for your time we look forward to seeing you again.